Shaft lean

Hi Guy,

Great question. My 3D data that supports it comes from the wrist graphs and the axial velocity graph. The club is twisting closed fairly quickly at impact and the wrists are typically 20 to 30 degrees more flexed/extended at impact. One way to think about it. As the club moves along the arc from the top of the swing to the finish, the club also twists and points more closed. So if you hit it earlier in the arc, that less twisting has taken place. So if hands forward is the same as hitting it earlier in the arc, then the face had to be more open. This is pure mechanics and less about the anatomy of how the handle moves forward or backward.

This is a nerdy topic, but one that might help create some peace of mind for you :)

Happy Golfing,

Tyler

Thanks. So when you demo leaning a club from address position and the face opens have to taken any 3 d measurements of the face angle and handle to see how much the face opens and that the handle doesn't twist? Folks are claiming the only reason the face would open is if when you lean it you twist the handle, thus the put it against the wall and drag it, etc.
You demo leaning from address in the isolated club movement video and it appears that the further you lean it , you give it a slight twist - but it looks to have opened prior to that time. This is similar to lowering/raising the handle causing the face to close/open - thankfully no debate on this one yet, lol. However I do it and with whatever club when I drag the club aunts the wall, lean it on the edge of a bar stool, etc - I do get it to open without the logo on the grip showing any signs of a twist.

An example using a putter

Hi Guy, here's a quick answer video. Hope it helps. But let me know if it's still not clear, or if you have any follow up questions, and I'll make it more clear when I film a full video in a few weeks.

Tyler

Yes, I believe I understand what you are saying in the short video. I am interested in what the club does when not being swung but leaned from a static grounded address position. To me, it opens as seen in the putter clip I attached. In the Instagram clip from my OP, the instructor demonstrated, by holding the club waist high in front of him, what happens when he moves the handle toward the target with no rotation - the head moves away from the target and opens.

Related is that lowering/raising the handle closes/opens the face from setup and these motions come in handy in the short game - not so much leaning away/toward the target though all of these motion can become compensations in a swing depending on the face conditions - and you have a video explaining these.

I go by Guy though I have been called Ghee at times by some French-Canadians and long ago by a professor of mine who though Polish live in France for quite some time. I just roll with it. I first learned of this way back in the early 70's when following the Olympics and saw the French hurdler Guy Drut.

Looking forward to the longer video.

Here is another clip with a wedge showing a lean with no twist opens the face.

Duplicate post

Hey Guy, not Ghee,

I'm still traveling and dealing with prep for my class this weekend, so no time for a video until Feb. But, I'm curious, what do you hope the non-swinging version will help you understand. If you just move the handle forward, is that trying to simulate more shaft lean? Or just seeing what happens to a club when the grip moves horizontally?

Tyler

Clarity on the four motions of the handle and their effect on the club face. Raise opens, lower closes so does forward open and backward close? Or is it other body motions that open/close the face and simple movement of the handle does nothing? Your book, to me, says simple movement of the handle opens/closes but others disagree.

So far i have found no evidence to support the do nothing case. Even had an instructor do a video where he leaned the handle forward to show the face did not change but when zoomed in it clearly opened until his hands reached his lead thigh and he rotated the face closed - we are talking a matter of 10* so unless you zoomed it would appear that the face only
delofted.

And when told to slide the grip along a wall etc so as to avoid twisting the face open or raise the handle , the clips i attached clearly show the face opens and handle does not twist or raise. Putter, wedge, 4i all same result.

Deep in the weeds. Nothing urgent so if a video is or isnt necessary to answer then i am good. Dr kwon, 6 months ago or so, told me he has a paper coming out on midhands motion and which, in part, addresses the alpha wars - patiently awaiting that one too. He like you has many balls up in the air.