Hitting vs swinging ¶
By: Ned G on May 22, 2020, 6:33 p.m.
Seems to me that Tyler teaches swinging. I don’t really understand hitting...right arm throw...Malaska move....RIT(Jim Hardy). Whatever you wanna call it. Seems like flipping
By: Tyler F on May 25, 2020, 4:22 p.m.
+Ned G I've never really understood the difference between hitting and swinging. I get the idea in theory, but when I've asked people for something quantifiable on 3D, I've never had a concrete answer. I like to teach the body to work as a unit, and in order to do that, you'll hit certain positions and have certain relationships. I don't see a lot of punch elbow at the elite level, and if you do, they have figured out a way to release without a major stall. I'm not sure if that's one of the core distinctions of hitting vs swinging or not, but it's an observation I've made.
What do you think are the distinctions between hitting and swinging?
By: Ben T on Sept. 2, 2022, 7:46 a.m.
I’ve read Jim Hardy’s Release book and I know you are looking for something real through data to prove differences. From trying to deeply understand the release styles and finding which may work best for me, it seems that a possible indicator would be lead arm depth or right arm location around P5.
It seems that with the LOP release that the trail elbow is well in front of body and the lead arm is pulling down almost on plane with the ball. And to get down to ball there must be some good ulnar deviation (drop of the shaft)
In the RIT release the trail elbow seems to stay on the side of the body (about on the seam line of shirt) while the lead arm stays inward and continues to move inward coming into impact while the right arm/wrist has more a of throwing motion (wrist flexion dominant) in order for the club to get out to the ball.
Would love to hear your thoughts on these two styles if in fact you could see a difference worth discussing on 3D. I think two opposing players for this study would be Rory (RIT) and Phil mickelson (LOP).
By: Tyler F on Sept. 4, 2022, 8:31 a.m.
Categorizing golf swings is a challenge. On some level, it's natural to see that each golf swing is different and there are patterns that we tend to see show up together. But on the data side, the distinctions are usually less clear. On the wrist graphs, I don't see big differences between golfers categorized as hitters vs swingers. Maybe subtle differences, but not major pattern differences.
The lead arm is usually measured as adduction across the chest, or elevation to the shoulder. Looking at depth, you'd have to not only look at the shoulder angle, but probably the torso angle to find a relative relationship compared to the ball. This might be a case where video is easier for classifying rather than the data.
My current philosophy is that the biggest style differences relate to the quality/distribution of spine side bend and the movement of the shoulder blades. But these are easier to see on video compared to 3D as well.
On some level, I think it's important to understand 3D as a tool. It doesn't replace video just like an MRI or x-ray doesn't replace physical evaluations. Both can be useful and helpful to diagnose and treat an injury.
As far as the trail elbow, I don't know if that's the best differentiator. Many golfers with lots of body rotation have the trail elbow more in-front than golfers with more of a throw style pattern. Perhaps if we get better AI to analyze shoulder movement we'll have some better answers, but right now. I don't see the 2 distinct patterns that Hardy promotes. More of a spectrum of understanding your own swing to help guide which pieces to work on and prioritize yourself.
Lastly, here are a couple of points to help clarify your understanding. You mentioned Rory as a RIT style, but on 3D, his trail arm release is much more dominant with pronation rather than flexion. And you mentioned LOP needing more ulnar deviation, but typically they have less because they have more shoulder internal rotation and don't need the UD as much to lower the club to the ground.
I'll give this some thought and maybe I can do a video on classifying swings in the near future.