Thorax Angles

WEBVTT

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Okay, coaches. Here we go again. Let's look at the thorax angles. So the thorax

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is basically the rib cage or the chest, and we're going to look how this is

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moving in the three rotational planes.

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So forward, backward, side to side, and then rotation.

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Okay, so what's in the 3D graph? We'll look at kind of the common patterns, the

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TPI guidelines, as well as we'll compare them to some amateurs, and as always,

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we're going to tie it into what's happening anatomically and movement-wise.

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We're also going to look at a couple different graphs that I use as a

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supplement to the torso graphs that are better for certain characteristics. We

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'll talk about those at the end.

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Okay, so the 3 that we're going to look at primarily are the thorax rotation,

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the thorax bend, and the thorax side bend. But then we're going to look at

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spine, forward tilt, and side tilt. We'll talk about that at the end of the

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presentation.

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Okay, as always, let's just kind of observe and look at what's going on here in

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the graph. So again, timeline of the golf swing. You've got address, this first

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black line, top of the swing, the second line, impact the third one.

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This last one is the finished position. So here you've got backswing, downswing

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, and then follow through.

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And we'll just kind of take a quick snapshot at some of these graphs. Similar

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to what we saw with the pelvis graphs, the angles are going to be more subtle.

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You'll typically see a similar pattern with the angles than we will with the

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linear movements.

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So let's just kind of look through here. When you put them all up, you can see

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maybe some small changes in the green or the blue differences in scale, but

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overall a similar pattern.

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And similar to what I said with the pelvis angles, you have to watch out for

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the scale. So the red line or the rotation graph will often wash out some of

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the details of the other two graphs because they're typically on a smaller

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scale.

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Okay, as always, when we're looking at 3D, remember that 3D does not give you

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the answers. 3D gives you a representation of what's going on at the body. So

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it might cue you in on to some little details that you might not be able to

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observe just with video.

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But when you recognize it, you want to tie it back to what's the movement that

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's happening and how is that movement affecting the body? How is that movement

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affecting other parts of the body? How is that movement affecting the club?

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So never look at just one graph. You want to take the whole movement system as

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a whole and kind of summarize it based on how the golfer is moving, not just

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what the graph looks like.

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Always think in movement. So remember the rules from the position classes,

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primarily the relationships, finding the fixed point, what's moving, what's not

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.

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And then when we're looking at the 3D graph, we're getting kind of a whole

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timeline of a movement. So you want to think in terms of the swing phase when

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the graph looks wrong.

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So those are the big ones when we're looking at the 3D graphs. We're talking

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related anatomy for the thorax graphs. We're really looking at the stuff that

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connects to the rib cage here, as well as the shoulder girdle.

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Now the shoulder girdle is super important, critical to understand, but it's

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also kind of the biggest mystery in the 3D space because it's the hardest to

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measure.

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So you have to go off a little bit more of what you can infer from looking at

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video and what chains might be active.

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So if you look at how the arm is moving or the spine is moving, you can

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sometimes infer what the shoulder girdle is doing.

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But when it comes to the rib cage, you've got the big muscles of your abs, your

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obliques, and your back muscles.

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And then when it comes to the shoulder girdle, you've got all your scat muscles

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, as well as some of your back and chest muscles.

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So you've got your traps, serratus anterior is a key one, your lats, your pecs,

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your rotator cuff, your bicep, your tricep.

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You've got Carco brachialis as a key kind of connector, but these are the big

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ones, these are the ones that you will primarily focus on.

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Okay, when we're dealing with the spine, remember the rib cage is 12 vertebrae,

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and each of those vertebrae have rib attachments, that's part of what makes the

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thoracic cage.

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So here's a top down view, so the camera's looking straight down the spine like

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this, and they're facing this way.

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So here is the vertebral body, which is this part as well as this part, and

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then here you can see the rib attachment.

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The rib attachment has two different attachments, so it's like a bucket handle.

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The ones up more at the top move more up and down, and as they get further down

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into the lower ribs, they move more kind of side to side or expand out like

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this.

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So top part moves more up, bottom part moves more in and out.

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When you're looking at the rotation, the ribs will deform in the direction that

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they're rotating, so they'll kind of compress in the direction that they're

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rotating and open up in the direction they're rotating away from.

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So you'll see some of this, that's part of why you can recognize scoliosis

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patterns from doing a back view assessment, because you'll see the ribs pop out

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when the spine is rotated.

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Here's just looking at the facet joint angles, so primarily the facet joint

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helps guide you with movement, so in the lumbar spine those facet joints are

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vertical, so the movement is more this way, you don't have a lot of rotation or

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side bend.

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Some, but not a lot.

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And then as you get higher up the spine, they kind of move more and more into

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this kind of horizontal plane, so you get more and more rotation.

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The rib cage has a fair amount of movement because it's well vertebra, but each

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individual segment is not too mobile because it's fixed by the ribs.

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So just as a quick reminder, rib cage, the thoracic spine has about 50 degrees

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of flexion, 45 of extension, 40 of lateral flexion, 30 of rotation.

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So pretty good amount of movement, and this is a common place that gets stuck

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for a lot of our amateur golfers.

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When looking at the shoulder girdle, remember that there are five joints in

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each side, so the shoulder girdle is 10 joints in total.

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I guess you could make arguments for a couple more, but minimum, you've got

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your sternoclavicular joint, or sometimes called the SC joint in this country,

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or SCC in others.

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You've got the AC joint, or the acromioclavicular joint, where the acromium in

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the clavicle hit, kind of right out here.

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So SC joint is this knob right here, AC joint is right out there, that's what

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joins the clavicle and the scapula.

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So you have a joint between the scapula and the rib cage, you have the glenohum

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eral joint, and then you have the joint between the humerus and the scapula.

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So the subdeltoidian joint right in there. So all of these joints have to kind

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of move together for a well-functioning shoulder.

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The rib cage and the shoulder also have a direct link in how they move, so we

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'll talk into that.

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But oftentimes, when you're looking at how the spine is moving, you'll, on the

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graph, so you'll want to compare on the video to see what are the shoulder

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blades doing to give you a sense of what muscles

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and what chains might be active at that time.

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So the big movements for the shoulder blades are elevation, depression,

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abduction, adduction, or upward downward rotation.

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These can be referred to as different, they'll use different terms. Some will

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call the abduction protraction.

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Some will call it sagilization because the scapula is moving into the sagittal

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plane or frontalization because it's moving into the frontal plane.

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But basically, you've got this bone that's floating in space and it can move up

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, down, side to side, and rotate like this.

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Alright, we will jump into a little bit more of the muscles because the

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shoulder understanding some of these will help us when we're looking at some of

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the connections.

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So this is the back view, you've got your superficial muscles with the trap and

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the lat and the deltoid and then underneath, you have the rhomboids cut away

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here.

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You've got the serratus muscles, the serratus posterior superior, inferior, and

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the serratus anterior, one of the key ones for moving the scapular girdle.

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You've got a good view of the tricep attachment through here, that one can play

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a key role in the golf swing.

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And then you've got these are the external rotators, so look at the size

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difference between the external rotators there for golfers wanting to get more

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shallow versus the internal rotators of the lat and the pec and the subscap.

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The internal rotators are huge compared to the external rotators, part of the

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reason why a lot of amateurs use those big muscles for creating some power, but

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that can mess up our path or face.

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So from the front view, you've got the pec, has attachments to both the clav

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icle as well as the sternum, big fan, you've got the upper trap and deltoid.

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This is a good view of how the serratus anterior, which we saw coming wraps

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around onto the ribs and then pretty strongly connects to the oblique muscles.

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So the scapula motion will have a big impact on how your abs are going to

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function.

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Here's again just looking at these kind of key shoulder muscles.

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Bicep has this key attachment here that is part of what makes it the key motion

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for supination.

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So it's got an attachment that connects right down here, and that's part of

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what helps it rotate the forearm.

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Again tricep has a connection both into the capsule, so it's part of the

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broader rotator cuff.

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And then underneath here on the scapula, that can be kind of a common reason

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why a lot of golfers who get more of this kind of chop movement from the arms

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also go into internal rotation.

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That gets the line of the tricep a little bit more vertical, makes it powerful,

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but messes up the power you would create from the ribcage.

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Okay, we've got the fascia slings.

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We'll see these in pretty much all the presentations dealing with the spine in

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the body.

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So you've got your spiral and your functional lines.

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Spiral line is the big one for rotation, functional line on the backside, also

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is big for rotation.

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On the front line we see most of the chains running more vertically, so that's

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more of kind of a chop or crunch pattern.

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Here's kind of the classic, you've got your interior oblique sling, so obliques

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to add doctors, and then you've got that functional line or the posterior ob

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lique sling where you've got the lat to the glute.

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You can see these, in order to rotate, the fibers have to be moving somewhat di

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agonally.

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Ideally, for rotation they would go just straight across the body and then it

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would pull into rotation.

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But we've got these muscles going in diagonal patterns, that's what creates the

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rotation.

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So if you're looking at muscles like the quads or the abs or the low back,

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those work more straight up and down, they're not as good for rotating.

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Here's a view of some of those quad muscles.

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Can you see those connections work more in kind of a straight up and down

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pattern?

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It's part of where you'll see kind of either chopped or, you know, lifting in

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the backswing to chop in the downswing or kind of crunching in the backswing to

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lift in the downswing.

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When you do that, it's harder to rotate because you're using the muscles that

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run straight up and down and so the ones that run diagonally.

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Okay, let's get into these graphs.

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So we covered some anatomy in a little bit of movement.

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Now let's look at some good examples and kind of the goal of what we want to

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see.

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So the thorax goals in the golf swing, it transfers energy from the pelvis to

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the shoulder girdle and it's a big part of the rotational engine.

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That rotational engine helps create the flat spot down to the bottom for

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consistency.

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It also, you use a bunch of big muscles that create rotational speed that helps

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create force in the swing plane and it allows the arms to shallow and create

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lag.

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So it allows you to apply force over a longer time, all good things.

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From the kinematic perspective, the ribcage is what positions your upper body

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and your arms attached to your upper body at that SC joint.

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So this is the only bony attachment, all the rest are kind of free floating,

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all the other joints.

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So the thorax is what positions this close enough and at the right angle so

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that when you use your arms, you just slice the turf instead of it was straight

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up and down or if it was too far away.

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It would impact what you would have to do with the arms to get the club to the

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ball.

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It also, when it makes the turn in the backswing and you load up those core

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muscles, it also creates some hand depth so it allows for a little flatter

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swing plane in that sense.

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Alright, let's go through the three rotation graphs. So first one is bend. So

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bend, you've got near 35, 40 degrees to start and then it'll go near zero,

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especially the driver up towards the top of the swing.

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So it will extend up this way. It will typically flex more than it was at setup

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in the downswing.

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That's part of what helps create the vertical pressure. So I call that that

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left crunch move and then it will extend through impact to about 30, 40 degrees

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here in the follow through.

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The key relationships is looking at the scapular girdle. Just as a quick

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general rule with the scapula, when the spine rounds like this, the scapula

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tend to protract or move into the sagittal plane. So they come around this way.

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When you tend to extend, they will move backward and down kind of like this.

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So when you create shoulder rotation, it's kind of one of each. You can see the

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shoulders going more like that.

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But the thorive bend graph can be influenced by what's happening in the lumbar

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spine. It can be impacted because it's a global relationship. It can be

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impacted by what's happening at the foot, the hip, the whole lower limb.

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It's greatly influenced by whether you're using the lats and your back muscles

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or your abs and your glutes or if you're using your hip flexors, whatever core

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00:16:42.650 --> 00:16:45.000
muscles you're activating.

228
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.490
And then it's a great the bend graph can show if you're using more of the

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00:16:50.490 --> 00:16:58.200
anterior posterior sling. So if you're going into early extension, or if you're

230
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:02.000
losing your posture in your backswing.

231
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:06.890
The TPI main concern with thorax bend is the reverse spine angle, which would

232
00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:13.390
be if this line goes negative. If that goes negative, that's when your spine is

233
00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:19.000
going into if your upper back is leaning this way up at the top of the swing.

234
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:27.120
That's typically it leads to a this crunch factor where you go into flexion and

235
00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:34.630
side bend or sorry extension and side bend. And so you can jam on the sets

236
00:17:34.630 --> 00:17:37.000
early in transition.

237
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:43.450
But that's why that's one of their big concerns. But we'll look at that in the

238
00:17:43.450 --> 00:17:47.000
later graphs a little differently.

239
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:52.430
The swing relationships, whether the arms are steep shallow open closed. That's

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00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:56.930
kind of the universal theme of if you want the more you want to use your body,

241
00:17:56.930 --> 00:18:01.000
you need your arms to match and you need the club based to match.

242
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.670
So if you're powering it more with a vertical chop or a turn, you'll tend to

243
00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:12.530
see a little difference here in the pelvis grip bend graph, especially this

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00:18:12.530 --> 00:18:15.000
peak here in the downswing.

245
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.000
That's one of the subtle differences you'll see.

246
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:23.280
So here are the three. So we got grant weight, demonstrating a little bit of

247
00:18:23.280 --> 00:18:27.700
reverse spine angle, but they say that, you know, if you're more than five

248
00:18:27.700 --> 00:18:31.000
degrees, that's where we start to kind of worry about it.

249
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.000
I'd say more.

250
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:38.100
If you're really losing, like if you're losing the integrity of your abdominal

251
00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:41.000
wall, that's when I start worrying about it.

252
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:48.000
Henrik Sensen, pretty close to zero, you know, so similar ish pattern.

253
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:54.550
And then Steve Alkington, a little bit less, and doesn't get quite as flexed in

254
00:18:54.550 --> 00:18:59.080
the downswing. He goes into a little bit more of this upper body early

255
00:18:59.080 --> 00:19:00.000
extension.

256
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:10.180
So we'll see that easier in another graph. Okay, what are the bend graph

257
00:19:10.180 --> 00:19:10.690
problems? Again, TBI says reverse spine, but I always, you can, you could also

258
00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:11.000
be under extended.

259
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.200
So we're going to look at some of these older golfers and we're going to see

260
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.000
that they don't come anywhere close to zero.

261
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:23.130
And then the power source of if I'm pulling down versus turning, that can

262
00:19:23.130 --> 00:19:26.000
impact how much I'm flexing forward.

263
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.440
You would think that if I pull down, I'm going to flex down more, but if I did

264
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:35.630
that, because I would have the narrower flat spot, I'd hit a lot of steep shots

265
00:19:35.630 --> 00:19:36.000
.

266
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:41.000
So typically, if you get more down, it means that you had to rotate your body

267
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:47.000
to avoid hitting it flat and kind of lengthen the flat spot down at the bottom.

268
00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000
So here we've got Colin.

269
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.990
So you can see reasonable setup there. He does regain his flex, so not a big

270
00:19:57.990 --> 00:20:01.000
loss posture, but very under extended at the top.

271
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:13.000
If we look at that visually, it's going to look like this.

272
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:18.120
So you can see that, you know, he's still, if we're looking at the position

273
00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:23.150
being kind of the goal position being zero or around vertical with the driver,

274
00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:29.000
you can see that he's still flexed a good 20, 30 degrees, or this angle here.

275
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:34.500
So at the top, he's around 20 degrees, and then the other one that you'll

276
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:40.020
commonly see is notice how in the follow through, he only gets to about 15

277
00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:42.000
degrees of extension.

278
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:49.000
So I mentioned the common pattern of kind of getting into that 30, 40 degrees,

279
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:54.650
where that looks is basically his body is still flexed forward, his upper body

280
00:20:54.650 --> 00:20:56.000
is ahead of his hips there.

281
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.000
I call it kind of a grandpa posture, grandpa pivot sometimes.

282
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:05.580
There's sometimes I try to coach that, and there's other times where that's

283
00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:09.000
going to be a big path inhibitor, such as in his case.

284
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:15.240
So next we've got Mike Mullins, so Mike here, similar didn't get to kind of the

285
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:21.000
full extension at the top, didn't get to the full extension in the follow

286
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:27.000
through, but didn't lose his posture too much there in the downswing.

287
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.000
Let's see what that looks like.

288
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.960
So we go up towards the top of the swing, and there's kind of a similar angle

289
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.240
to what we were seeing with Colin, and then when we go through into the finish,

290
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.000
you can see here's where the sensor is.

291
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.380
So if you're looking here, you'd like, oh, it's pretty straight up and down,

292
00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:51.000
but he's not getting a lot of extension out of the upper spine.

293
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.350
And one of the indicators that you'll see is look at how much his shoulders

294
00:21:55.350 --> 00:21:59.680
have really shrugged. So because his spine wasn't extending to raise his arms

295
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.000
up, he wasn't able to keep that connection.

296
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:09.220
He had to lift the arms up, or he had to go and lift the club more with his

297
00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:13.000
arms rather than with the spine.

298
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:18.100
So this is a good place to look at this relationship, so I'm a big fan of kind

299
00:22:18.100 --> 00:22:24.000
of keeping the serious interior and keeping some of that shoulder connection.

300
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:29.320
So if it gets too free there, you can look at the thorax bend to help

301
00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:31.000
understand why.

302
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.930
And then we've got Ron, a little bit of reverse spine, a little more extended

303
00:22:36.930 --> 00:22:44.910
position, maybe still a little under extended. That's a common, common, common

304
00:22:44.910 --> 00:22:53.790
thing you'll see in the follow through is under extension of the upper thoracic

305
00:22:53.790 --> 00:22:55.000
spine.

306
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.350
Okay, so we go up to the top, he always freaks me out with that little takeaway

307
00:22:59.350 --> 00:23:03.730
move. So there's, you know, a little bit of that reverse spine. Now most of his

308
00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:07.970
is because of the sway, so I'm less worried of it being like a big low back

309
00:23:07.970 --> 00:23:09.000
extension.

310
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:18.000
It's just more of a sway driven early extension, and then on the way through,

311
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:23.050
you can see through there, he gets into a little bit, you know, a little bit of

312
00:23:23.050 --> 00:23:29.000
extension so he didn't have to lift his arms quite as much, not too bad Ron.

313
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:34.470
Okay, next we've got the side bend graphs or side bend looking at side bend to

314
00:23:34.470 --> 00:23:40.520
the right side bend to the left. Basically we're near zero it set up or a

315
00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:48.000
little bit favoring the trail side, about 35 40 degrees left bend at the top.

316
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:55.050
A slight left bend oftentimes like you'll see this is just barely. It's more of

317
00:23:55.050 --> 00:24:01.070
a like waiting to come into right side bend, but slight left bend to start the

318
00:24:01.070 --> 00:24:08.000
downswing. That's where I talk about the left crunch, and then 35 degrees right

319
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.450
bend at about impact but reaching the max of somewhere around 50 degrees in the

320
00:24:13.450 --> 00:24:14.000
follow through position.

321
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:18.000
So right around chef parallel is kind of the max goal.

322
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.990
Okay, so again, all the key, you want to look at it at the hole, you definitely

323
00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:27.380
want to connect it to the scapular movements, and you can look at what's

324
00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:31.310
happening at the rest of the spine, but the scapula is going to have a big

325
00:24:31.310 --> 00:24:37.320
influence on this particular graph when the scapula starts elevating like this

326
00:24:37.320 --> 00:24:39.000
if the arm is going into internal rotation.

327
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:44.890
That's going to tend to pull me into left side bend. When the scapula is going

328
00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:49.320
down, that's going to or depressing. That's going to tend to pull me into more

329
00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:50.000
right side bend.

330
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:56.510
So those guys have a big connection. So TPI's main error for this is flat

331
00:24:56.510 --> 00:25:01.180
shoulder plane. So just kind of not reaching, you know, turning a little bit

332
00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:02.000
more level.

333
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:08.130
But I often see as another pattern not getting into the side bend in the follow

334
00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:15.000
through position quite as much. So that's where I have the head on the pillow

335
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.000
concepts are basically keeping your spine angle all the way into follow through

336
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.000
, follow through position.

337
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:24.450
So as always, chopper's turn, what's the clubface and what's the path matching

338
00:25:24.450 --> 00:25:30.090
up with the pivot. Okay, so we got grant weight. These will be relatively

339
00:25:30.090 --> 00:25:31.000
boring.

340
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:35.290
So a little bit of side bend to start up to the top of the swing, a little bit

341
00:25:35.290 --> 00:25:40.190
of left crunch, reaching the max after follow through somewhere around 30 at

342
00:25:40.190 --> 00:25:41.000
impact.

343
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:47.430
Looks good. Here we've got Henrik Stenson, a little higher again, not 100% sold

344
00:25:47.430 --> 00:25:52.940
. This was digitized great, reaching less of a left side crunch and a little

345
00:25:52.940 --> 00:25:54.000
sharper.

346
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:00.620
So he's kind of going into that right side bend a little bit faster or quicker,

347
00:26:00.620 --> 00:26:06.000
I should say, but reaching that max late in the follow through.

348
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:12.150
And then Steve Alkington, similar reaches the peak just after impact so

349
00:26:12.150 --> 00:26:20.230
continues down through there, and then reaches the 50 degree so mark in the

350
00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:22.000
follow through.

351
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:29.580
These ones are, this is one of the more boring graphs when you look at torporos

352
00:26:29.580 --> 00:26:34.000
. Related patterns, again, the foot loading.

353
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:40.460
So basically swaying, sliding, or loading knees versus loading shoulders versus

354
00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:45.680
loading hips or loading core. That can cause that flat shoulder plane downswing

355
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.780
looking at excessive access tilt, although that will be easier when we look at

356
00:26:49.780 --> 00:26:51.000
the last graphs.

357
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:56.480
Pull down, so some golfers kind of pull down on the club this way so watch out

358
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:01.000
for those steep arms, which we mentioned in the next one.

359
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:05.810
And then golfers who tend to not get that side bend might not have enough

360
00:27:05.810 --> 00:27:11.150
verticals late where if they did that side bend they would tend to move the low

361
00:27:11.150 --> 00:27:13.000
point too far backward.

362
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:19.160
So they will under side bend in the follow through position to help control

363
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.000
strike typically.

364
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:26.640
So Ron doesn't have too big of a problem with that. We will see he loses, so he

365
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:31.200
's a little under side bend to the left in the backswing and comes out of it

366
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.000
quicker.

367
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:45.000
So if we bring up, there we go, Ron. Now we'll move it down here.

368
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:51.100
So you can see kind of right in there that left shoulder is already starting to

369
00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:58.040
come up and going towards right side then pretty quickly. That little kind of

370
00:27:58.040 --> 00:28:04.000
shoulder going like this, that's what this looks like.

371
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:09.790
He does a decent job. Let's put him back there. He does a decent job kind of

372
00:28:09.790 --> 00:28:16.000
getting into some pretty good side bend there in to follow through position.

373
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:26.000
Colin, definitely more on that flat shoulder plane side. So we take him up.

374
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:39.710
He gives the appearance of some side bend, but if you look at the angle of the

375
00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:45.050
chest, part of what gives the appearance of the side bend that you have to be

376
00:28:45.050 --> 00:28:51.000
careful about is how much he's elevated that right shoulder to end it.

377
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:58.500
So there it's like at this point right here, you can see how flat the angle of

378
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:03.800
his chest is, but then because of what he does with that right shoulder going

379
00:29:03.800 --> 00:29:07.510
across the line, he gives the kind of visual appearance that he's gotten st

380
00:29:07.510 --> 00:29:08.000
eeper.

381
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.970
It's kind of like, if I go like this, it looks like I bent more to the left,

382
00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:18.000
but you notice I didn't change my spine. I didn't change my chest.

383
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:23.220
So there are some times where it's important to, okay, on video, you'd be like,

384
00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:28.160
oh, that's not too bad. And then if you see on 3D that it's pretty light, you

385
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:31.430
know that it's happening more from the shoulder griddle than it is from the

386
00:29:31.430 --> 00:29:32.000
spine.

387
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.370
The other way to kind of look at it is as he starts down, you'll see how

388
00:29:36.370 --> 00:29:40.990
quickly his shoulders kind of level out or how he looks like he's turning

389
00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:43.000
around the flatter axis.

390
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:47.260
That's more of what the spine was doing rather than the shoulder griddle. But

391
00:29:47.260 --> 00:29:52.000
as he goes through, he gets into some decent side bend there.

392
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:57.000
That's not his, it's a biggest issue.

393
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.700
Then Mike, this is kind of more the classic where we've got decent position,

394
00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:06.000
you know, coming out of it early. You see that very common.

395
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.280
That's why I kind of teach that left side bend to a number of golfers, and then

396
00:30:10.280 --> 00:30:15.700
really underside bent on the way through. This is the lack of head on a pillow

397
00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:18.000
or staying in your spine.

398
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:24.200
And I'm giving away the answer there, but you can see, gets some side bend

399
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:30.970
there, and then decently rotating, but boom, you can see how vertical that

400
00:30:30.970 --> 00:30:33.000
spine axis is there.

401
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:38.200
As he approaches, there's this follow through position. So that's what that

402
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:43.910
looks like graphically. It's still going into more side bend, but the scale

403
00:30:43.910 --> 00:30:45.000
here matters.

404
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.000
It's just not getting into a deep enough position there.

405
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.770
Okay, last of the rotation graphs is, or sorry, yeah, last of the angular

406
00:30:53.770 --> 00:30:58.890
graphs is the rotation pattern. This is the one, all the rotations, TPI talks

407
00:30:58.890 --> 00:31:03.000
about basically you do as much as you can and just don't mess it up.

408
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.650
So the tour pattern is pretty close to zero if they're aligned with their

409
00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:11.000
tripod, maybe a tiny bit rotated to the right.

410
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:17.830
Or sorry to the left. It's just kind of a common pattern you'll see for the

411
00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:19.000
right arm to get underneath.

412
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:26.000
About 90 degrees closed at the top, and then about 30 degrees open at impact,

413
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:32.000
and the change direction happens before the club changes directions.

414
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.480
Remember, the top of the swing in AMM is when the club head changes direction.

415
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.830
You always want to see what your system, what the other systems are looking at

416
00:31:40.830 --> 00:31:43.000
if you're comparing the graphs.

417
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:51.190
Again, scapular movement, core movement, the anatomy is not changing for these

418
00:31:51.190 --> 00:31:55.420
here, but you do want to look at if you're comparing the pelvis rotation and

419
00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:59.260
the thorax rotation, is the rotation happening more from the foot ankle or is

420
00:31:59.260 --> 00:32:01.000
it happening from the hip?

421
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:06.000
So that's a key contributor.

422
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.280
So again, TPI says no errors unless you're adding extra movement and creating

423
00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:13.000
kind of fake rotation.

424
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:19.300
But the biggest one here, this rotation, how they rotate is probably more

425
00:32:19.300 --> 00:32:23.000
important than the absolute scale here.

426
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:29.350
So as we go through, starts a little bit above, rotates about 90 degrees at the

427
00:32:29.350 --> 00:32:38.000
top, 30 degrees at impact, pretty classically boring.

428
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:49.230
Similar pattern here. Okay, so if they do have a rotation pattern problem, you

429
00:32:49.230 --> 00:32:55.300
want to look at how they're controlling the face to path, does their club face

430
00:32:55.300 --> 00:32:58.000
match something that would allow them to rotate?

431
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:03.520
And then is there steeps and shallows balancing out? Steep arm, shallow body is

432
00:33:03.520 --> 00:33:07.000
a really common problem for creating rotation.

433
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.000
So this is where screening to see how much they can rotate isn't a bad idea.

434
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:26.000
From a backswing perspective, look at the shoulder griddle. So are they getting

435
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:26.000
extra arm lift or shoulder height or trail arm should be internal rotation?

436
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:31.740
But you could look at it as either way, to have a good backswing, not going

437
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:34.000
into internal rotation.

438
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:41.780
And then how are they loading the hip? Because if the hip, if I kind of sway

439
00:33:41.780 --> 00:33:49.760
off the ball or I'm loading more of the knee instead of we'll go up on the

440
00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:51.000
platform.

441
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:56.990
So if I'm loading kind of the knee kind of this way, it's going to be hard for

442
00:33:56.990 --> 00:34:05.150
me to rotate my body. That's kind of the old idea of keep your knee flex and

443
00:34:05.150 --> 00:34:07.000
brace your lower body and turn against it.

444
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:11.800
That does do a good job of loading the scapular griddle, but it doesn't do as

445
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:14.000
good a job of loading the core.

446
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:18.160
That was kind of one of the myths of the X factor. So even when we look at the

447
00:34:18.160 --> 00:34:23.000
amateurs, we're going to see kind of a similar pattern.

448
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:27.340
The big thing here is just kind of eyeballing or looking at where they are at

449
00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:28.000
impact.

450
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:34.210
Typically amateurs are a little less rotated at impact than we saw with the

451
00:34:34.210 --> 00:34:35.000
pros.

452
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:41.290
So Colin gets well open, but shorter here in the backswing. So he's kind of a

453
00:34:41.290 --> 00:34:46.000
under rotated backswing and then spins and gets open.

454
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:52.000
So you can see that changing direction well before the top of the swing.

455
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:56.770
And then Mike has his plateaus because he has that little pause towards the top

456
00:34:56.770 --> 00:35:02.260
, but a little under rotated, which for his makes sense because he's under

457
00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:03.000
extended.

458
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:08.000
And then decent rotation position at impact.

459
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.800
So again, these thorax angles have looked at them a lot. They're usually some

460
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:18.160
of these fine little details, so kind of connecting it to other graphs or

461
00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:19.000
connecting.

462
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:23.740
I would never make an assessment of a golfer just based on a thorax angle graph

463
00:35:23.740 --> 00:35:30.000
, but helping explain why another graph looks the way that it is.

464
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.150
I might look at the thorax angle or I might look at the video to see what's

465
00:35:34.150 --> 00:35:38.000
happening with shoulder blades as it relates to the thorax angle.

466
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:43.000
Because you don't see massive changes or massive differences in the pattern.

467
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.000
These are a lot more subtle.

468
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:53.440
So just before the lockdown, I took Dr. Kwan's class and he talked about what

469
00:35:53.440 --> 00:36:00.640
he called the Kwan convention, which is basically looking at the thorax from

470
00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:04.000
the like the spine angles.

471
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:10.740
So TPI has these and I've been looking at those more this year, but the spine

472
00:36:10.740 --> 00:36:17.500
axis forward bend is basically looking at the angle of the mid thorax, so the

473
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:20.000
mid AC joint and the pelvis.

474
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:25.570
So from the front plane, kind of like this, and then the side axis is looking

475
00:36:25.570 --> 00:36:27.000
at it this way.

476
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:34.490
So now let's see what those look like. So if we, the spine axis graph is the

477
00:36:34.490 --> 00:36:39.000
forward tilt is the green line and the side tilt is the red line.

478
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.370
So the side tilt, when it's going positive, they're tilting away and the green

479
00:36:45.370 --> 00:36:51.000
line, when it goes negative or lessens, that's when they're standing up.

480
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:57.230
So here, Henrik Stenson, you can see fairly flat line. So he increases a little

481
00:36:57.230 --> 00:37:01.160
bit forward bend in transition, but then he kind of keeps there and he gets a

482
00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:07.000
bunch of the shallowing happening here to where he's somewhere around the 20

483
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:07.000
degrees.

484
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:13.290
I like to see with the driver, so I now like to use that number, you know, 15,

485
00:37:13.290 --> 00:37:16.000
20 degrees of access tilt.

486
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:22.230
Here's Steve Elkington. Remember, Elk has a little bit of that kind of stand up

487
00:37:22.230 --> 00:37:23.000
move.

488
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:31.150
So the green line we can see stand up, stand up. So Elk has a little bit of,

489
00:37:31.150 --> 00:37:36.000
you know, if you watch his head compared to the trees there.

490
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:41.840
If you watch his head compared to the edge of the screen there, you can see his

491
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:45.000
chest pulling away and then it kind of stabilizes.

492
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.720
So that's where you see it pulling away and then it stabilizes. So he's stable

493
00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:53.000
through impact, that part's pretty good, but it does shallow out there.

494
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:58.070
So he gets a little extra shallowing both with the side bend as well as the

495
00:37:58.070 --> 00:38:01.000
early extension from the upper body.

496
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.700
So that allows him to pull down a little bit more with the arms or be a little

497
00:38:05.700 --> 00:38:11.200
vertical or steeper with the arms and just typically causes a little timing and

498
00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:13.000
maybe not quite as powerful.

499
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:20.340
Grant weight. So forward flexes, shallows a little bit. He's negative. This is

500
00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:24.210
when he was doing, again, more of the stack and tilt, but then he still gets

501
00:38:24.210 --> 00:38:29.410
close to that, you know, above 15, close to that 20 degree side tilt through

502
00:38:29.410 --> 00:38:30.000
the ball.

503
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.290
So if we look at these, there's some differences, but this tells a little

504
00:38:35.290 --> 00:38:39.000
better story than some of those store X numbers.

505
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.190
And Dr. Kwan's point was, you know, probably if you look at the top of the

506
00:38:43.190 --> 00:38:47.610
swing or if you look at setup, those are, they're going to be close, whether

507
00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:52.000
you do the traditional looking at each movement in plane.

508
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.410
But in the middle is where these are going to be more useful. So when you're

509
00:38:56.410 --> 00:39:00.890
looking at a follow through position, or if you're looking at where are they

510
00:39:00.890 --> 00:39:06.930
mid backswing, these are probably easier to an easier convention to see what's

511
00:39:06.930 --> 00:39:09.000
going on at the thorax.

512
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:15.580
Okay, so now let's take a look at the amateurs. So here we can see reasonably

513
00:39:15.580 --> 00:39:22.000
stable keeps in his spine angle, maybe a little under shallowed here.

514
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:27.120
That would make sense with some of his clubface patterning and maybe a little

515
00:39:27.120 --> 00:39:31.000
lightly. He doesn't continue it quite as long.

516
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.490
Here's a good one. So this is Mike. He, he struggles with the driver. This, you

517
00:39:35.490 --> 00:39:40.140
can see, oh, he increases his posture and then, wow, look at the green line. He

518
00:39:40.140 --> 00:39:43.000
gets a lot of shallowing from this big slope.

519
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:47.480
And remember, we want to see this one probably up around 20 degrees. So he's

520
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:53.150
actually like, this is a really easy way to see why some golfers would struggle

521
00:39:53.150 --> 00:39:56.000
with angle of attack with their driver.

522
00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:00.690
Unfortunately, the only two systems I know that present this one are a mm and 4

523
00:40:00.690 --> 00:40:06.430
d. So if you have one of those, the quant 3d or the quant thorax angles looks at

524
00:40:06.430 --> 00:40:08.000
these two graphs.

525
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:15.500
But he's, you know, let's pull up Mike one more time. So there you can see

526
00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:21.180
upper body on top of lower body, upper body still on top of lower body. So no

527
00:40:21.180 --> 00:40:22.000
real access to it.

528
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:27.480
And you can see how quickly that is to see here where we weren't quite getting

529
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:33.000
an obvious area. You know, we saw maybe a little under extended, maybe a little

530
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.000
under, under side bend in the follow through.

531
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.340
But this, it now shows up really clear. Oh, he's getting all of the shallowing

532
00:40:40.340 --> 00:40:44.680
from his body and not much from the side bend or all of the shallowing from

533
00:40:44.680 --> 00:40:49.000
kind of that upper body early extension and not much from the side bend.

534
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:53.310
And then last one, we've got Ron, we've got oh boy, there's a big kind of that

535
00:40:53.310 --> 00:40:57.500
's what the sway does gets a big reverse spine angle there but recovers into a

536
00:40:57.500 --> 00:40:59.000
nice position there.

537
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:05.780
And then relatively stable, just kind of a gradual shallowing there. So, like I

538
00:41:05.780 --> 00:41:12.330
said, if you compare here are the three amateurs and the two golfers who

539
00:41:12.330 --> 00:41:17.000
struggle the most with the driver kind of have the least side bend shallowing.

540
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:22.520
If we compare that with the pros, there's a little bit more of a story of, you

541
00:41:22.520 --> 00:41:27.910
know, what the rib cage is doing and what the spine is doing when you look at

542
00:41:27.910 --> 00:41:32.000
these graphs as opposed to the traditional graphs.

543
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.740
So hopefully this presentation helped cleared up what the rib cage is doing, at

544
00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:41.690
least rotationally, couple different ways to look at it, the traditional graphs

545
00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:44.000
as well as the quantified graphs.

546
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.600
I think there's a lot of information to be had there, but you definitely want

547
00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:51.040
to relate that information to what's happening at the scapular girdle and

548
00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:54.000
unfortunately no system is measuring that really well.

549
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.180
So you're going to have to go, you'll take the 3D information and combine it

550
00:41:58.180 --> 00:42:01.820
with what's going on in the video so that you can create an easy summary of

551
00:42:01.820 --> 00:42:05.000
what's happening with the golfer you're analyzing.

552
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.640
So if you have any questions about this presentation, any of these graphs, go

553
00:42:09.640 --> 00:42:14.520
ahead, contact us, comment below, and that way I can add a little clarification

554
00:42:14.520 --> 00:42:19.920
to help streamline your processing of all the complex information that we're

555
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.000
going through here.

556
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:26.030
In the next graphs, we'll move into, or in the next presentations, we'll move

557
00:42:26.030 --> 00:42:30.370
into the linear movements, which is where a lot of the magic of what's

558
00:42:30.370 --> 00:42:34.000
happening with the body shows up on the 3D graphs.

559
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.000
So enjoy till next time.