Net Force Discussion - Simplified Golf Physics
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In this insight, my goal is to help instructors understand the general force patterns
In this discussion video, Tyler answers an instructor question about seeing the overall net force pattern in the golf swing. This is important for instructors to understand, but not critical for the average golfer. This video targets golf nerds only!
Video Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.560
Hi, in this GolfSmart Insight, I'm going to help you understand the forces as
2
00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:05.080
they apply
3
00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:06.280
in the golf swing.
4
00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:11.410
I know that there's a lot of confusion out there about what the forces are, how
5
00:00:11.410 --> 00:00:11.920
you can
6
00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:15.240
see them or if you can see them, and the general patterns.
7
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.390
So in this video, I'm going to hopefully clarify some of those forces,
8
00:00:18.390 --> 00:00:19.880
especially as they relate
9
00:00:19.880 --> 00:00:24.160
to the in-plane movement, sometimes referred to as alpha.
10
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.110
All right, before we look at how it relates to the golf swing, I've got this
11
00:00:28.110 --> 00:00:28.880
simple little
12
00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:34.150
drawing to help you understand the net force, because I think it's often
13
00:00:34.150 --> 00:00:35.400
confused for what
14
00:00:35.400 --> 00:00:38.760
a golfer is trying to do versus what is actually happening.
15
00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:43.900
Okay, so in this scenario, I've got a cliff, right, and then there's a weight
16
00:00:43.900 --> 00:00:44.580
hanging
17
00:00:44.580 --> 00:00:48.680
around a pulley being held by this gentleman here.
18
00:00:48.680 --> 00:00:53.470
Now that pulley is not a string, it's a cable, and that's going to be important
19
00:00:53.470 --> 00:00:54.560
for this third
20
00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:55.560
situation.
21
00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.960
Okay, now I've got the weight on a cable attached to the guy.
22
00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:02.480
There's a couple different things that could happen.
23
00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:06.840
Scenario one, he's kind of lowering it down slowly.
24
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.640
Scenario two, he's backing up and he's actually pulling it upward.
25
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.650
And then scenario three, because it's a cable, he's actually pushing it down,
26
00:01:15.650 --> 00:01:16.560
so he's having
27
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:18.720
it fall faster than gravity.
28
00:01:18.720 --> 00:01:24.390
Okay, in the first scenario, actually the second scenario is probably easy, so
29
00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:24.920
let's
30
00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:25.920
start with that.
31
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.520
So in the second scenario, right here, he's got the cable moving up this way.
32
00:01:30.520 --> 00:01:36.860
He is clearly pulling on the cable back towards him like this.
33
00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:39.820
That's where the net force would be going, and it would be greater than
34
00:01:39.820 --> 00:01:40.360
whatever the
35
00:01:40.360 --> 00:01:43.400
weight is with gravity.
36
00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:48.950
On this second example, we've got the weight going down, so he's slowly letting
37
00:01:48.950 --> 00:01:49.720
it down,
38
00:01:49.720 --> 00:01:54.010
so his hands and everything would be moving this way, but because the weight is
39
00:01:54.010 --> 00:01:54.440
going
40
00:01:54.440 --> 00:02:00.520
down slower than gravity, the net force is back towards him.
41
00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:04.470
It's going to be in the same direction as him pulling up, just to a lesser
42
00:02:04.470 --> 00:02:05.000
degree or
43
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.160
a lesser magnitude.
44
00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:11.900
It's only an example three, where if he was to accelerate this down greater
45
00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:12.560
than just
46
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:17.900
what gravity would be doing, that he would actually have the force and his hand
47
00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:18.720
direction
48
00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:21.960
going out towards the pulley like so.
49
00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:27.720
Now we'll talk about where this relates to the golf swing, but the common thing
50
00:02:27.720 --> 00:02:28.280
I hear
51
00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.700
is, okay, if we want the forces coming back in towards you, that you need to be
52
00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:33.280
really
53
00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:34.960
pulling up on the handle.
54
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.090
We'll understand that if you create a ton of club at speed, and this weight is
55
00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:39.640
pulling
56
00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:43.080
away from you, or the golf club is swinging away from you, you're going to have
57
00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:43.480
a really
58
00:02:43.480 --> 00:02:48.680
high force pulling in towards you, even though your arms are extending and kind
59
00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:49.480
of letting
60
00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:53.430
that weight kind of pull your arms out, so that's an important thing to
61
00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:54.200
understand that
62
00:02:54.200 --> 00:03:00.600
the net force is a relationship of the physics happening to you or by you, not
63
00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.760
necessarily
64
00:03:01.760 --> 00:03:04.800
what you're trying to do and what you're feeling.
65
00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.520
Now let's take that rope on a string analogy and apply it to the golf swing,
66
00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:09.040
and let's
67
00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:12.840
specifically look at going normal down to the bottom.
68
00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:18.000
So pulling up on the handle and having the force going more up towards you.
69
00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.740
The orange dots that I have drawn represent roughly where the center of mass
70
00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:23.520
would be,
71
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so just behind the shaft in the direction of a club head kind of like this.
72
00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:31.570
Again, this is incredibly rough, but we don't have to get too specific to be
73
00:03:31.570 --> 00:03:32.240
able to see
74
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.280
this general pattern.
75
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:40.780
If we take a look at these dots, and if we imagine just the vertical change, or
76
00:03:40.780 --> 00:03:41.720
just the
77
00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:45.670
change towards the ground kind of like this, you can see as you get down here
78
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towards
79
00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:51.080
the bottom, the vertical change between the dots gets smaller and smaller.
80
00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:56.550
That means that the center of mass is not accelerating down towards the ground,
81
00:03:56.550 --> 00:03:57.200
because
82
00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:02.640
the if it was, then the space between these dots would get bigger and bigger.
83
00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:08.000
So since the distance between the dots is getting slightly smaller, that means
84
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:08.480
that the
85
00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:13.440
force would be working up away from the ground.
86
00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:18.080
So when we get down here, where the swing, where the club has a flatish path,
87
00:04:18.080 --> 00:04:18.540
it was
88
00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:23.080
moving very vertically through here, and then it has a flatish path.
89
00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:28.810
That means somewhere around here, which ends up being roughly when those hands
90
00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:29.680
are in front
91
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:36.010
of the thigh, it starts to flatten out, and therefore the force would be
92
00:04:36.010 --> 00:04:37.640
working away from
93
00:04:37.640 --> 00:04:42.860
the ground from, let's say, the frame just before this, all the way down
94
00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:43.800
through and
95
00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:45.720
past the impact.
96
00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:52.040
So you can see that unless you had an angle of attack somewhere around 90
97
00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:52.800
degrees, you're
98
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:58.610
probably going to have the net force working away from the ground or towards
99
00:04:58.610 --> 00:04:59.240
you.
100
00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.350
What really matters is how you apply that force away from the ground, whether
101
00:05:03.350 --> 00:05:03.760
you do
102
00:05:03.760 --> 00:05:09.600
it more from your body, whether you do it more by pulling and bending your arms
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.
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But as you've seen, you don't necessarily have to feel like you pull your hands
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in closer
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to your body in order to get the proper net force pattern.
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The other instruction that I commonly hear is down at the bottom, you want to
108
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be pulling
109
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not only up, but you want to be pulling in.
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So this is a little bit trickier to see.
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The easiest way to see this is actually from an overhead cam.
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But think of it in the same light as what we did from the face-on.
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We can see that at this phase in the downswing, the center of mass is having
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some clear movement
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00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:44.760
out towards the golf ball.
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Now remember, if it slows down its movement out towards the golf ball or it
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changes direction
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in the center of mass starts moving away from the golf ball, that means that
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there was
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a net force away from the golf ball.
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So down here at the bottom where you can see that the path of the club starts
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working
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back up and in, that means that well before then, there was a net force that is
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working
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away from the golf ball.
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So you can see that in order to make a swing where you didn't have the net
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forces working
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back up and in or away from the ground and away from the golf ball, it would be
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very
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challenging.
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In fact, it would not look very much like a golf swing at all.
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The most important part is how you create these forces, not necessarily what
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the forces
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actually are.
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There's still a lot of stuff that we can learn from investigating these net
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forces.
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But the overall patterns kind of make sense with the general movement patterns.
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If you're not sure what the general movement patterns are or therefore what the
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arm should
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00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:53.140
be doing in the backswing or transition or the release, either subscribe to our
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00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:53.680
YouTube
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00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:57.720
channel, that way you can get updates as soon as we post them online.
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Or if you want to get into the real nitty gritty, head over to golfsmartacademy
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00:07:02.340 --> 00:07:03.160
.com, sign up
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00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:07.400
for a free membership, and then you can take a look at the concept videos and
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00:07:07.400 --> 00:07:08.080
the drill
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videos to help you understand all the details as far as what the body should be
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doing during
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the different phases of the swing and how to recognize the feedback as to if
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you're actually
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doing it or not.
1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.560
Hi, in this GolfSmart Insight, I'm going to help you understand the forces as
2
00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:05.080
they apply
3
00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:06.280
in the golf swing.
4
00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:11.410
I know that there's a lot of confusion out there about what the forces are, how
5
00:00:11.410 --> 00:00:11.920
you can
6
00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:15.240
see them or if you can see them, and the general patterns.
7
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.390
So in this video, I'm going to hopefully clarify some of those forces,
8
00:00:18.390 --> 00:00:19.880
especially as they relate
9
00:00:19.880 --> 00:00:24.160
to the in-plane movement, sometimes referred to as alpha.
10
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.110
All right, before we look at how it relates to the golf swing, I've got this
11
00:00:28.110 --> 00:00:28.880
simple little
12
00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:34.150
drawing to help you understand the net force, because I think it's often
13
00:00:34.150 --> 00:00:35.400
confused for what
14
00:00:35.400 --> 00:00:38.760
a golfer is trying to do versus what is actually happening.
15
00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:43.900
Okay, so in this scenario, I've got a cliff, right, and then there's a weight
16
00:00:43.900 --> 00:00:44.580
hanging
17
00:00:44.580 --> 00:00:48.680
around a pulley being held by this gentleman here.
18
00:00:48.680 --> 00:00:53.470
Now that pulley is not a string, it's a cable, and that's going to be important
19
00:00:53.470 --> 00:00:54.560
for this third
20
00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:55.560
situation.
21
00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.960
Okay, now I've got the weight on a cable attached to the guy.
22
00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:02.480
There's a couple different things that could happen.
23
00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:06.840
Scenario one, he's kind of lowering it down slowly.
24
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.640
Scenario two, he's backing up and he's actually pulling it upward.
25
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.650
And then scenario three, because it's a cable, he's actually pushing it down,
26
00:01:15.650 --> 00:01:16.560
so he's having
27
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:18.720
it fall faster than gravity.
28
00:01:18.720 --> 00:01:24.390
Okay, in the first scenario, actually the second scenario is probably easy, so
29
00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:24.920
let's
30
00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:25.920
start with that.
31
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.520
So in the second scenario, right here, he's got the cable moving up this way.
32
00:01:30.520 --> 00:01:36.860
He is clearly pulling on the cable back towards him like this.
33
00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:39.820
That's where the net force would be going, and it would be greater than
34
00:01:39.820 --> 00:01:40.360
whatever the
35
00:01:40.360 --> 00:01:43.400
weight is with gravity.
36
00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:48.950
On this second example, we've got the weight going down, so he's slowly letting
37
00:01:48.950 --> 00:01:49.720
it down,
38
00:01:49.720 --> 00:01:54.010
so his hands and everything would be moving this way, but because the weight is
39
00:01:54.010 --> 00:01:54.440
going
40
00:01:54.440 --> 00:02:00.520
down slower than gravity, the net force is back towards him.
41
00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:04.470
It's going to be in the same direction as him pulling up, just to a lesser
42
00:02:04.470 --> 00:02:05.000
degree or
43
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.160
a lesser magnitude.
44
00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:11.900
It's only an example three, where if he was to accelerate this down greater
45
00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:12.560
than just
46
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:17.900
what gravity would be doing, that he would actually have the force and his hand
47
00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:18.720
direction
48
00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:21.960
going out towards the pulley like so.
49
00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:27.720
Now we'll talk about where this relates to the golf swing, but the common thing
50
00:02:27.720 --> 00:02:28.280
I hear
51
00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.700
is, okay, if we want the forces coming back in towards you, that you need to be
52
00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:33.280
really
53
00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:34.960
pulling up on the handle.
54
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.090
We'll understand that if you create a ton of club at speed, and this weight is
55
00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:39.640
pulling
56
00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:43.080
away from you, or the golf club is swinging away from you, you're going to have
57
00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:43.480
a really
58
00:02:43.480 --> 00:02:48.680
high force pulling in towards you, even though your arms are extending and kind
59
00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:49.480
of letting
60
00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:53.430
that weight kind of pull your arms out, so that's an important thing to
61
00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:54.200
understand that
62
00:02:54.200 --> 00:03:00.600
the net force is a relationship of the physics happening to you or by you, not
63
00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:01.760
necessarily
64
00:03:01.760 --> 00:03:04.800
what you're trying to do and what you're feeling.
65
00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.520
Now let's take that rope on a string analogy and apply it to the golf swing,
66
00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:09.040
and let's
67
00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:12.840
specifically look at going normal down to the bottom.
68
00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:18.000
So pulling up on the handle and having the force going more up towards you.
69
00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.740
The orange dots that I have drawn represent roughly where the center of mass
70
00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:23.520
would be,
71
00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.560
so just behind the shaft in the direction of a club head kind of like this.
72
00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:31.570
Again, this is incredibly rough, but we don't have to get too specific to be
73
00:03:31.570 --> 00:03:32.240
able to see
74
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.280
this general pattern.
75
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:40.780
If we take a look at these dots, and if we imagine just the vertical change, or
76
00:03:40.780 --> 00:03:41.720
just the
77
00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:45.670
change towards the ground kind of like this, you can see as you get down here
78
00:03:45.670 --> 00:03:46.200
towards
79
00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:51.080
the bottom, the vertical change between the dots gets smaller and smaller.
80
00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:56.550
That means that the center of mass is not accelerating down towards the ground,
81
00:03:56.550 --> 00:03:57.200
because
82
00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:02.640
the if it was, then the space between these dots would get bigger and bigger.
83
00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:08.000
So since the distance between the dots is getting slightly smaller, that means
84
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:08.480
that the
85
00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:13.440
force would be working up away from the ground.
86
00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:18.080
So when we get down here, where the swing, where the club has a flatish path,
87
00:04:18.080 --> 00:04:18.540
it was
88
00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:23.080
moving very vertically through here, and then it has a flatish path.
89
00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:28.810
That means somewhere around here, which ends up being roughly when those hands
90
00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:29.680
are in front
91
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:36.010
of the thigh, it starts to flatten out, and therefore the force would be
92
00:04:36.010 --> 00:04:37.640
working away from
93
00:04:37.640 --> 00:04:42.860
the ground from, let's say, the frame just before this, all the way down
94
00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:43.800
through and
95
00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:45.720
past the impact.
96
00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:52.040
So you can see that unless you had an angle of attack somewhere around 90
97
00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:52.800
degrees, you're
98
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:58.610
probably going to have the net force working away from the ground or towards
99
00:04:58.610 --> 00:04:59.240
you.
100
00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.350
What really matters is how you apply that force away from the ground, whether
101
00:05:03.350 --> 00:05:03.760
you do
102
00:05:03.760 --> 00:05:09.600
it more from your body, whether you do it more by pulling and bending your arms
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00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:09.960
.
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00:05:09.960 --> 00:05:14.380
But as you've seen, you don't necessarily have to feel like you pull your hands
105
00:05:14.380 --> 00:05:15.240
in closer
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00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:19.800
to your body in order to get the proper net force pattern.
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The other instruction that I commonly hear is down at the bottom, you want to
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00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:23.320
be pulling
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00:05:23.320 --> 00:05:26.000
not only up, but you want to be pulling in.
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00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.520
So this is a little bit trickier to see.
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00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:31.840
The easiest way to see this is actually from an overhead cam.
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00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:36.460
But think of it in the same light as what we did from the face-on.
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00:05:36.460 --> 00:05:41.720
We can see that at this phase in the downswing, the center of mass is having
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00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:43.120
some clear movement
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00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:44.760
out towards the golf ball.
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00:05:44.760 --> 00:05:49.390
Now remember, if it slows down its movement out towards the golf ball or it
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00:05:49.390 --> 00:05:50.680
changes direction
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00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.000
in the center of mass starts moving away from the golf ball, that means that
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there was
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00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:57.920
a net force away from the golf ball.
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So down here at the bottom where you can see that the path of the club starts
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00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:04.180
working
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00:06:04.180 --> 00:06:09.550
back up and in, that means that well before then, there was a net force that is
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00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:10.240
working
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00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:12.000
away from the golf ball.
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00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.330
So you can see that in order to make a swing where you didn't have the net
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00:06:16.330 --> 00:06:17.400
forces working
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00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:22.740
back up and in or away from the ground and away from the golf ball, it would be
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00:06:22.740 --> 00:06:23.200
very
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challenging.
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In fact, it would not look very much like a golf swing at all.
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The most important part is how you create these forces, not necessarily what
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the forces
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actually are.
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There's still a lot of stuff that we can learn from investigating these net
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forces.
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00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.280
But the overall patterns kind of make sense with the general movement patterns.
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If you're not sure what the general movement patterns are or therefore what the
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00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:48.800
arm should
140
00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:53.140
be doing in the backswing or transition or the release, either subscribe to our
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00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:53.680
YouTube
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00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:57.720
channel, that way you can get updates as soon as we post them online.
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00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:02.340
Or if you want to get into the real nitty gritty, head over to golfsmartacademy
144
00:07:02.340 --> 00:07:03.160
.com, sign up
145
00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:07.400
for a free membership, and then you can take a look at the concept videos and
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00:07:07.400 --> 00:07:08.080
the drill
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00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:12.360
videos to help you understand all the details as far as what the body should be
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00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:13.200
doing during
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00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:17.210
the different phases of the swing and how to recognize the feedback as to if
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00:07:17.210 --> 00:07:18.040
you're actually
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00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.040
doing it or not.
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