Discussing the Wipe

Hey Coaches, one of the ways I'd like to use this forum is for deep discussions on swings and movements. Jules and I were having a conversation on email, and I asked him to let me post it here. Let me know what you all think. ------- His original email ------------------ Tyler I have an idea for a video you can shoot indoors and then again later outdoors. I think it helps to deal directly with several misconceptions about lag, driving the trail elbow in front of the trail hip and forward, etc. The video is most clearly shot just by starting without a club and only the right arm at the top of the swing. This shows the angle of the right arm at the elbow most clearly cause that's all you need to focus on in this context. Then the transition and downswing start and you show the additional flexion in the right wrist and the gradual ulner deviation while at the same time showing that the angle at the right elbow is slowly but constantly increasing: this shows clearly the myths about lag, but more importantly, it shows the myth about how you actually get your trail elbow in front of the trail hip; it is a consequence of the proper downswing along with the proper matching of rotation with arm movements. Now we come to the crucial part. People can be mislead by your description of the wipe move into thinking that part of the wipe and the reason why you see the right elbow exiting at the other side of the body post impact and as a result of the wipe is because you are supposed to keep moving the right elbow forward. But this is not the case. It is because you extend your arms as YOU ROTATE. In fact the elbow at the end of the release is still very much in front of the trail hip; and moreover, it continues to point at the right hip . It hasn't moved forward beyond where it was at delivery position at all or at most an inch as a result of momentum. This is very important because together these points illustrate how misleading the standard teaching is about the trail elbow in the downswing. You can doubly illustrate the point another way. Imagine that the golfer did not rotate at all in the downswing beyond necessary to get into basically having the body facing the ball comparable to the address position, and that at the delivery position he had somehow still managed to get the trail elbow in front of the trail hip. If he did the wipe at this point, in order to hit the ball at all solidly, he really would have to somehow drive that elbow in the direction of the front hip or at least beyond the belly button. And if the golfer never rotated the trail elbow would never be seen exiting on the front side as a result of the release. But in the proper swing it is the combination of rotation and the wipe that leads to the exiting of the right elbow, not driving the elbow forward. And ironically, at the end of the release (two arms straight post impact and the club below the hands) the right elbow is still very much still in front of the trail elbow and points at it. You can also show this by keeping the arms where they are in post impact release position and rewinding back to delivery position -- in other words just unrotating keeping everything in the same relative position they were in at the post impact end of release position. I think this is an eye opener about the trail elbow throughout the downswing -- what it does and what it doesn't do -- in a correct swing. There is even more. Teachers tell their students to hold the trail elbow angle until delivery (when remember the old chestnut that at that point centrifugal force will release the angle in the elbow and in the wrist) for fear that extending the elbow (increasing the angle) will lead to an uncocking of the wrist and casting. In fact, after transition and around front arm parallel in the downswing, you definitely want to be doing both together, uncocking and extending while increasing flexion in the trail wrist. That gives you the real lag which comes not from wrist hinge, but from trail wrist flexion and the consequent fact of the clubhead being behind the hands being 'slung' through the ball by the conjunction of rotation and extension of the arms (what you call the wipe). Hope this paints the picture. -----My response -------------- Hi Jules, This does seem like it could be a fun topic to discuss. Maybe this would make a good topic on the forum. I had a little trouble following some of the descriptions. I’m thinking some pictures or videos might make it easier. For instance, when you say flexion of the right wrist, do you mean extension? I thought it might have been a typo but you repeated it multiple times. Also, you said the right arm ulnar deviation. The trail arm shallowing comes from supination since it is often radially deviating during the wipe, while the lead wrist is ulnar deviating. Also, your comment that "this shows the myths about lag”. Maybe I’m not sure what the myths are, but again two of your terms aren’t quite right when you say “gradual ulnar deviation and additional flexion” if we are describing the trail wrist, both of those aren’t right. I still think it’s a worthwhile topic for me to discuss, but I want to make sure we are on the same page, so seeing you demonstrate it might help me see where the communication issue is. I’m especially confused by this description. "Now we come to the crucial part. People can be mislead by your description of the wipe move into thinking that part of the wipe and the reason why you see the right elbow exiting at the other side of the body post impact and as a result of the wipe is because you are supposed to keep moving the right elbow forward. But this is not the case. It is because you extend your arms as YOU ROTATE. In fact the elbow at the end of the release is still very much in front of the trail hip; and moreover, it continues to point at the right hip . It hasn't moved forward beyond where it was at delivery position at all or at most an inch as a result of momentum.” I think some of my challenge in following the description is switching from positional references to anatomical movements. Would you be open to me pasting this in the coaches forum so we can easily talk with pictures and videos? The wipe and lag are definitely a point I want to try and help as much as possible, so I think this could be a good topic to discuss. Thanks for the suggestion, let me know if you’re okay moving platforms or if you can help clarify with a short video what you’re describing. ----see his video below.