What do you think I said about this golfer's L to I drill submission?

T
Tyler Ferrell Coach 6 years, 7 months ago
This is his description that came with the submission: "Submitting L to I swings to see if I am practicing correctly. Working hard on the merry go round. Not sure if I’m open enough at impact in my swing? It seems like the body rotation should be driven by the lead side obliques and with bracing from the lead side, is this correct? Should I also use the trail side leg and obliques to get even more open earlier in transition and at impact? I’m sure I’m using the trail side but what I mean is, should I train more trail side body movements? Hope these questions make sense. " I'll post my comments tomorrow, let's see what you guys come up with first.

9 Replies

C
Chris Adkins 6 years, 7 months ago
Looks like the lower body is passive and not much bracing going on. There is a lack of the “wipe” movement with trail arm leaving the arms behind which contributes to the pivot stalling. Hard to tell but the club face appears open coming down which may be why the trail arm internally rotates a bit early.
E
Ed Oldham 6 years, 7 months ago
I would work on better bracing and release.
J
Jules Coleman 6 years, 7 months ago
Not sure what you said Tyler, but I have a couple of thoughts. First, I would want to start by saying something positive and there are some definite positives. The student does get the club to the L position in the backswing appropriately; the contact appears to be good as well. So from an overall look perspective it is on the right track. To my eye, however there is always an ambiguity with this kind of drill because the L on the backswing can be understood as replicating a position on the backswing or trail arm parallel on the downswing. If the latter, then the club should be a little flatter and more behind or deeper. The follow through should display more ulnar deviation I think and the club head lower than the hands and also the club head should be visible to the left. The hands disappear to the right but not the clubhead. Relatedly, though it's hard to tell at speed but it does seem like the first move in transition is the hands pulling down on the handle. A couple of other small things. When I do a drill like this my torso is a bit more rotated on the backswing. And just overall it looks to me (again hard to judge at speed) that the hands are not lagging the sternum and so the arm speed feels out of sync relative to the body rotation; moving at way faster RPM to my eyes. Gives a forced and arhythmic look, not synced up to my eye. But again, I could be wrong, but I have to say it looks rushed.
C
Craig Kilcoyne 6 years, 7 months ago
I think he has too much weight out on his toes because he bent over too far this cause his arms work independent of his shoulder he takes the club outside and tries to save it with forearm rotation. Second because their to much weight on toes it restricts the left hip turn on his takeaway this would help getting the hands a little deeper on takeaway. By standing a little taller and weight little more centered he will be to turn better and should help brace as he pivots through.
J
Jules Coleman 6 years, 7 months ago
If you don't mind, let me share my overall approach to teaching, which does not stem from my experience in golf, but in academia. I taught at University for 45 years and developed an approach to teaching. It has two elements at least. First, is the desire to teach to the future, not the past. Think of a psychiatrist who treats patients in either of two ways: from illness or to health. An example of the former: Where did this neurotic pattern begin? An example of the latter: how can we get you to respond to stimuli in ways that are better for you. Both are legitimate of course and there is a place for both. I prefer teaching with the latter approach to the extent possible. When it comes to golf that amounts to a version of asserting the following: when someone asks me what did I do wrong, I answer, Nothing. What you did was perfect for producing that result. if you want a different result, you are going to have to do something different. What do you think that is? Which brings me to the second principle: find the fewest things to address that will have the widest impact. It's an analog of a business principle I adopt: you always want the least number of person to person contacts to have the greatest possible reach. So a door to door salesman is the worst case; and versions of the internet reach the other extreme. So when I look at a golf swing I try to imagine what change in movement will have the broadest possible consequences (positive hopefully). So when I look at this golfer's swing, my instinct is to ask what movement is likely to have the most positive consequences overall. One thought or one drill that will accomplish the most. For me, it would be working on the wipe in release. If done correctly the arms going across the body and out will also improve rotation of the body and may well improve the syncing up of body and arms. If it doesn't then I would work on having the arms and body move at the same RPM by slowing the arms down to match the body rotation. Sorry for the long comment. I promise not to do it again. Well that's a promise I promise I probably won't be able to keep. Feel free to remind me when I am too long winded, which, I imagine is more often than I think and invariably more painful than I assume it is.
R
Robbie Failes 6 years, 7 months ago
I’d say you put his attention toward his scapulas & training better use of the ground
F
Fred T 6 years, 7 months ago
Thanks for the opportunity. Let me know if I am way off here. Always open to feedback. I'm guessing tendencies are draws or hooks given the slightly in to out swing path while holding off clubface. The clubhead looks very held off at p8ish and is quite in to out at the bottom probably to prevent a duck hook. Although he mentions bracing I believe release positions should be addressed first and it should sort of some bracing concerns as well. To me, doing proper positions during drills are really really important as they lay the foundation to build the foundation for full swing moves. Whether with exaggeration or not, it should be done correctly to build the correct structure. Thus they should be "perfect". Here are my observations/suggestions: Primary: Not Proper Merry Go round - if done properly on the DTL view the shoulders should track on line with the ball, he needs more lead side body tilt (ie. Right side tilt) at p4 so its less like a shoulder line for driver and trail tilt on the downswing. (shallower for downswing). Early extension (or G humping/Thrusting....etc): needs his butt back 45 drill (steep), seems the extension could be related to steep release pattern. Should help with the more hip "open"ness as asked below and help give space for stretching out swing arc. Secondary: Hands are high to high (steep) - should try the hands low to high drill (shallow). Again, when working on a drill I believe positions should be "perfect" so I would combo this in. Lead elbow bending at P8 suggests a shorter arc width and flippy release. Also elbow separation can be seen through impact. Answers to Q: Not sure if I’m open enough at impact in my swing? - Yes, I believe tour average is around 30-45, and at P4 I can even see lead leg, guessing 35 degrees open. Most important is quality of turn. It seems like the body rotation should be driven by the lead side obliques and with bracing from the lead side, is this correct? Body rotation should start with a pressure shift onto the lead heel, (Jackson 5) and a rotation of the hips (butt back 45). I believe the rotation should be driven from the ground up. Should I also use the trail side leg and obliques to get even more open earlier in transition and at impact? I’m sure I’m using the trail side but what I mean is, should I train more trail side body movements? Hope these questions make sense. Over doing the trail side release can create a secondary tilt and potentially throw off your lowpoint. Given the lowpoint is pretty steep it could create contact issues for you. I would work on the above more.
T
Tyler Ferrell Coach 6 years, 7 months ago
Here's the response I actually gave back to him. I appreciate all the comments and well thought out answers. As you'll see, I didn't really disagree with any of the ideas. In my video, I talk about a positional check for him (follow-through). To do this, he will have to have better sequencing, a better wipe, have a better hand path, and better bracing (I think that's what most of you keyed in on). As Jules indicated, that one checkpoint is a great single reference that addresses a handful of critical concepts. So while I used the principle Jules mentioned this time, I would counter that point with a motor principle Guy taught me, "to master a movement, you must master each component of the movement." For some issues, and some students with lofty goals, you may have to work through small pieces that are not as easy as the one move that will have the biggest short term result, but it sets you up for a bigger long term gain. Since football season is approaching, an appropriate analogy would be running a bunch of draw plays in the first quarter to set up a play-action home-run in the fourth quarter. Since he had questions about the sequencing, I helped him investigate why it looked off by talking about the deep core, internal oblique, and connection to the body.
Z
Zach Fellman 1 month ago
Ooh this must’ve been fun!

Sign in to join the conversation

Create an account and become a member to post and reply.

Sign In

Find out what's really causing your miss. Get Your Free Diagnosis